[sword-devel] KJV updated

[DM Smith]

I just updated the KJV in the CrossWire repository. I had thought that I had done it back in October, but I had grabbed the wrong input.

See the KJV pages in the wiki for details: http://crosswire.org/wiki/User:Dmsmith/KJV2011

That page and the discussion page give lots of went into the update.

Not mentioned, I analyzed the TR that was used as the basis of the 2003 effort, comparing it to the KJV and fixed up thousands of errors.

I also added lemma.TR:xxx, where xxx is the Greek word from the TR that was used for the markup. The form used is that suggested by Chris L as normative.

I suggest that this be used in parallel markup like Xiphos does for Strong's Numbers and Robinson's morphological codes.

Hope in later version to:
update the morphology of the OT so that it is actually usable.
add titles
add margin notes and cross references
identify names

Enjoy.

In His Service,
DM Smith
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[David Haslam]

After a repo refresh, I just tried to install KJV v2.6 using Xiphos module
manager, but I got the message "Install failed".

What's up?

David



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[David Haslam]

Likewise, in PocketSword, when I tried to replace KJV v2.5 by v2.6, the
result was a deletion of v2.5, but without an installation.

btw. There was no "install failed" message from PocketSword.
Nic may wish to consider whether this is a s.w bug.

David



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[Steven P. Ulrick]

On Sun, 16 Feb 2014 02:33:41 -0800 (PST)

Post by David Haslam
Likewise, in PocketSword, when I tried to replace KJV v2.5 by v2.6,
the result was a deletion of v2.5, but without an installation.

Same here (in Bibletime.) Since my old KJV was deleted when I tried to
install the new one, I manually installed it from the "raw" directory
on the Crosswire FTP server. Turns out the modules/texts/ztext/kjv
directory is empty. Then I grabbed the zip file from the rawzip
directory. All of the files in the modules directory are zero length...

Steven P. Ulrick

[Barry Drake]

Turns out the modules/texts/ztext/kjv directory is empty. Then I
grabbed the zip file from the rawzip directory. All of the files in
the modules directory are zero length...

I recognise that problem from when I was helping to get the NET Bible
into a Sword module. I was still using Microsoft Windows at that time
and I can't remember whether the problem was with the Windows method of
compression or what. I do remember having to use either mingw or Cygwin
to run Linux tools to do the job properly - but we're talking ten years
ago so my memory fails me. It was all part of my departure from
Microsoft Windows.

God bless, Barry.

[Jim Michaels]

there is a bug in older versions of z cerain dll use4d by windows for "compressed(zipped) folders" in XP. I don't trust it. it corrupts and drops data according to my testing. the problem you had doesn't surprise me. it also doesn't handle files/archives over 2GiB. use 7-zip command-line:
cd somedir
7z a ..\something.zip
or
cd somedir
7z a something.zip abc\*


it has some bugs with regards to recursive directories (always on regardless of -r switch)

the issue with compressed(zipped) folders seems to have been fixed in windows 7 AND the 2GiB limit is fixed.

?
-------------
Jim Michaels
Jmichae3 at yahoo.com
JimM at RenewalComputerServices.com
http://RenewalComputerServices.com
http://JesusnJim.com (my personal site, has software)
---
IEC Units: Computer RAM & SSD measurements, microsoft disk size measurements (note: they will say GB or MB or KB or TB when it is IEC Units!):
[KiB] [MiB] [GiB] [TiB]
[2^10B=1,024^1B=1KiB]
[2^20B=1,024^2B=1,048,576B=1MiB]
[2^30B=1,024^3B=1,073,741,824B=1GiB]
[2^40B=1,024^4B=1,099,511,627,776B=1TiB]
[2^50B=1,024^5B=1,125,899,906,842,624B=1PiB]
SI Units: Hard disk industry disk size measurements:

[kB] [MB] [GB] [TB]
[10^3B=1,000B=1kB]
[10^6B=1,000,000B=1MB]
[10^9B=1,000,000,000B=1GB]
[10^12B=1,000,000,000,000B=1TB]
[10^15B=1,000,000,000,000,000B=1PB]

Post by Steven P. Ulrick
________________________________
From: Barry Drake <bdrake at crosswire.org>
To: sword-devel at crosswire.org
Sent: Sunday, February 16, 2014 3:37 AM
Subject: Re: [sword-devel] KJV updated

Turns out the modules/texts/ztext/kjv directory is empty. Then I
grabbed the zip file from the rawzip directory. All of the files in
the modules directory are zero length...

I recognise that problem from when I was helping to get the NET Bible
into a Sword module.? I was still using Microsoft Windows at that time
and I can't remember whether the problem was with the Windows method of
compression or what.? I do remember having to use either mingw or Cygwin
to run Linux tools to do the job properly - but we're talking ten years
ago so my memory fails me.? It was all part of my departure from
Microsoft Windows.
God bless,? ? ? ? Barry.
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[Greg Hellings]

Post by Jim Michaels
there is a bug in older versions of z cerain dll use4d by windows for
"compressed(zipped) folders" in XP. I don't trust it. it corrupts and drops
data according to my testing. the problem you had doesn't surprise me. it
cd somedir
7z a ..\something.zip
or
cd somedir
7z a something.zip abc\*
it has some bugs with regards to recursive directories (always on regardless of -r switch)
the issue with compressed(zipped) folders seems to have been fixed in
windows 7 AND the 2GiB limit is fixed.

The Windows implementation of Zip has nothing to do with any of the missing
files or such. All of that is handled by zlib on a Linux host.

--Greg
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[DM Smith]

I think I fixed the install problem. If everyone could check again that'd be great!

There was a directory permission problem which made the files invisible to FTP and HTTP. The files were there and had the right size. When the module was zipped the zipping program could see the files but could not read their contents.

In Him,
DM

Post by Steven P. Ulrick
On Sun, 16 Feb 2014 02:33:41 -0800 (PST)

Post by David Haslam
Likewise, in PocketSword, when I tried to replace KJV v2.5 by v2.6,
the result was a deletion of v2.5, but without an installation.

Same here (in Bibletime.) Since my old KJV was deleted when I tried to
install the new one, I manually installed it from the "raw" directory
on the Crosswire FTP server. Turns out the modules/texts/ztext/kjv
directory is empty. Then I grabbed the zip file from the rawzip
directory. All of the files in the modules directory are zero length...
Steven P. Ulrick
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[DM Smith]

I've checked BibleTime mini, PocketSword, AndBible and BibleDesktop. The download works.

In BibleTime mini, AndBible and PocketSword, the prebuilt index is not available. Not surprising. Both BibleTime mini and AndBible built the Lucene indexes quickly. PockeSword does not have that option and doesn't allow search unless there is an index available for download. Module looked like I expected.

Built the index for BibleTIme mini. It was fairly quick. Did a search for: aaron moses egypt. Expected 18 hits got 9. It was missing Exodus 6:13,26; 7:19; 8:5,16; 12:1; 16:6; and 1 Samuel 12:6, 8
I don't know if this is a module problem, a app problem or a SWORD lib problem.

In PocketSword, it displays all the values in the lemma field, which is pretty cool to see the Greek associated with the Strong's Numbers. However it thinks the Greek is a Strong's Number. These lemmas are not prefixed with strong: (which indicates that it should do lookups in a Strong's dictionary), but rather with lemma.TR: Indicating that they come from the TR module, which is a Bible. It might be good for these to not be clickable or for them to bring up the corresponding Strong's Number entry.

For AndBible, I encountered an error downloading. It thought the module was installed, wouldn't allow it to be downloaded again and nothing worked for the module. Couldn't figure out how to delete the module and reinstall it. So I wacked the program, re-installed it, downloaded the KJV and indexed it. Module looked like I expected.

In Him,
DM

Post by DM Smith
I think I fixed the install problem. If everyone could check again that'd be great!
There was a directory permission problem which made the files invisible to FTP and HTTP. The files were there and had the right size. When the module was zipped the zipping program could see the files but could not read their contents.
In Him,
DM

Post by Steven P. Ulrick
On Sun, 16 Feb 2014 02:33:41 -0800 (PST)

Post by David Haslam
Likewise, in PocketSword, when I tried to replace KJV v2.5 by v2.6,
the result was a deletion of v2.5, but without an installation.

Same here (in Bibletime.) Since my old KJV was deleted when I tried to
install the new one, I manually installed it from the "raw" directory
on the Crosswire FTP server. Turns out the modules/texts/ztext/kjv
directory is empty. Then I grabbed the zip file from the rawzip
directory. All of the files in the modules directory are zero length...
Steven P. Ulrick
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[David Haslam]

In BD (Win 7 x64), an all words search for aaron moses egypt gave 18 results.

So it's not the module, DM.

David



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[Karl Kleinpaste]

Post by DM Smith
In PocketSword, it displays all the values in the lemma field, which is pretty cool to see the Greek associated with the Strong's Numbers.

In Xiphos, I happened across KJV Matt 8:9, where I find odd markup at
the phrase "to my servant":

<w lemma="strong:G3588 strong:G1401 lemma.TR:?? lemma.TR:?????"
morph="robinson:T-DSM robinson:N-DSM" src="24 25"
type="x-split-482">to</w> <w lemma="strong:G3450 lemma.TR:???"
morph="robinson:P-1GS" src="26">my</w> <w lemma="strong:G3588
strong:G1401 lemma.TR:?? lemma.TR:?????" morph="robinson:T-DSM
robinson:N-DSM" src="24 25" type="x-split-482">servant</w>

As displayed, see Loading Image....
For reference, see also
Loading Image...

Why is the word "to" given markup for "servant" following, and
conversely "servant" for "to"?
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[David Haslam]

FYI.

It will be most helpful for detailed anomalies (such as that just reported
by Karl) to be collated into the wiki page in DM's user space.

http://crosswire.org/wiki/User:Dmsmith/KJV2011

For the KJV module, this is to be preferred than adding a new tracker issue
in MOD.

Please use the relevant section of that wiki page.

Best regards,

David



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[DM Smith]

Let's use a new page. I've addressed what was on those pages. It'd be good so I don't get confused. Which is much easier to do these days ;)

In Him,
DM

Post by David Haslam
FYI.
It will be most helpful for detailed anomalies (such as that just reported
by Karl) to be collated into the wiki page in DM's user space.
http://crosswire.org/wiki/User:Dmsmith/KJV2011
For the KJV module, this is to be preferred than adding a new tracker issue
in MOD.
Please use the relevant section of that wiki page.
Best regards,
David
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[David Haslam]

OK, let's add a new page called KJV2014 in your user space.

I can do that, once crosswire.org is back online. Currently...

The connection has timed out

The server at crosswire.org is taking too long to respond.

David



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[DM Smith]

Yesterday, I sent you the link to the page I added.

Post by David Haslam
OK, let's add a new page called KJV2014 in your user space.
I can do that, once crosswire.org is back online. Currently...
The connection has timed out
The server at crosswire.org is taking too long to respond.
David
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[David Haslam]

Thanks, DM,

The message with the link didn't reach me because the mailman was down at
the time.

I'll find it easily enough once the wiki is back up.

David





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[DM Smith]

Karl,

This is a feature not a bug.

Matt 1:19 might be a better example for an explanation:
<w src="12" lemma="strong:G3856 lemma.TR:???????????????" morph="robinson:V-AAN" type="x-split-393">to make</w> <w src="11" lemma="strong:G846 lemma.TR:?????" morph="robinson:P-ASF">her</w> <w src="12" lemma="strong:G3856 lemma.TR:???????????????" morph="robinson:V-AAN" type="x-split-393">a publick example</w>,

The verb <G3856|???????????????|V-AAN> is translated "to make a publick example" but <G846|?????|P-ASF> "her" is put into the middle, splitting the verb.

The verb is marked x-split-NNN on both parts. The SwordWeb program (http://crosswire.org/study/passagestudy.jsp) shows this well. Navigate to KJV Matt 1 and click on any part of "to make" or "a publick example" and the entire phrase translated by the Greek is highlighted. (By the way, SwordWeb is using an older version of the KJV module.)

This has been part of the KJV as part of the KJV2003 tagging effort. And it has been part of SwordWeb for a long time too. As far as I know, only SwordWeb makes use of this.

In Matt 8:9 mechanically would be <G3588|??|T-DSM;G1401|?????|N-DSM>"to the servant" <G3450|???|P-1GS> "of me". "to" is indicated by the form of the article and the noun. That is, it is part of the those. Not some other word.
But it is better to split "to the servant" and make it "to" "my" "servant" and drop "the" and "of".

It is also a feature of the KJV2003 effort for <G3588> to be part of the <w> for the word it applies.

Hope this makes sense.

In His Service,
DM Smith

Post by DM Smith
In PocketSword, it displays all the values in the lemma field, which is pretty cool to see the Greek associated with the Strong's Numbers.

<w lemma="strong:G3588 strong:G1401 lemma.TR:?? lemma.TR:?????" morph="robinson:T-DSM robinson:N-DSM" src="24 25" type="x-split-482">to</w> <w lemma="strong:G3450 lemma.TR:???" morph="robinson:P-1GS" src="26">my</w> <w lemma="strong:G3588 strong:G1401 lemma.TR:?? lemma.TR:?????" morph="robinson:T-DSM robinson:N-DSM" src="24 25" type="x-split-482">servant</w>
As displayed, see http://karl.kleinpaste.org/xiphos/kjv-mat.8.9-lemma.png.
For reference, see also http://karl.kleinpaste.org/xiphos/2tgreek-mat.8.9.png
Why is the word "to" given markup for "servant" following, and conversely "servant" for "to"?
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[Костя Маслюк]

Regarding BibleTime Mini, fix was merge-requested for inclusion into
BibleTime repo. Thanks for highlighting this issue.

Post by DM Smith
I've checked BibleTime mini, PocketSword, AndBible and BibleDesktop. The download works.
In BibleTime mini, AndBible and PocketSword, the prebuilt index is not available. Not surprising. Both BibleTime mini and AndBible built the Lucene indexes quickly. PockeSword does not have that option and doesn't allow search unless there is an index available for download. Module looked like I expected.
Built the index for BibleTIme mini. It was fairly quick. Did a search for: aaron moses egypt. Expected 18 hits got 9. It was missing Exodus 6:13,26; 7:19; 8:5,16; 12:1; 16:6; and 1 Samuel 12:6, 8
I don't know if this is a module problem, a app problem or a SWORD lib problem.
In PocketSword, it displays all the values in the lemma field, which is pretty cool to see the Greek associated with the Strong's Numbers. However it thinks the Greek is a Strong's Number. These lemmas are not prefixed with strong: (which indicates that it should do lookups in a Strong's dictionary), but rather with lemma.TR: Indicating that they come from the TR module, which is a Bible. It might be good for these to not be clickable or for them to bring up the corresponding Strong's Number entry.
For AndBible, I encountered an error downloading. It thought the module was installed, wouldn't allow it to be downloaded again and nothing worked for the module. Couldn't figure out how to delete the module and reinstall it. So I wacked the program, re-installed it, downloaded the KJV and indexed it. Module looked like I expected.
In Him,
DM

Post by DM Smith
I think I fixed the install problem. If everyone could check again that'd be great!
There was a directory permission problem which made the files invisible to FTP and HTTP. The files were there and had the right size. When the module was zipped the zipping program could see the files but could not read their contents.
In Him,
DM

Post by Steven P. Ulrick
On Sun, 16 Feb 2014 02:33:41 -0800 (PST)

Post by David Haslam
Likewise, in PocketSword, when I tried to replace KJV v2.5 by v2.6,
the result was a deletion of v2.5, but without an installation.

Same here (in Bibletime.) Since my old KJV was deleted when I tried to
install the new one, I manually installed it from the "raw" directory
on the Crosswire FTP server. Turns out the modules/texts/ztext/kjv
directory is empty. Then I grabbed the zip file from the rawzip
directory. All of the files in the modules directory are zero length...
Steven P. Ulrick
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[Nic Carter]

Post by DM Smith
In PocketSword, it displays all the values in the lemma field, which is pretty cool to see the Greek associated with the Strong's Numbers. However it thinks the Greek is a Strong's Number. These lemmas are not prefixed with strong: (which indicates that it should do lookups in a Strong's dictionary), but rather with lemma.TR: Indicating that they come from the TR module, which is a Bible. It might be good for these to not be clickable or for them to bring up the corresponding Strong's Number entry.

Thanks, noted.
I'll strive to update the pre-installed module to this new KJV once things have settled a bit, too. :)

Thanks for your hard work! ybic
nic... :)

[David Haslam]

Installed by Xiphos and then indexed.

However, when I then selected KJV for the first tab, Xiphos (for Windows)
crashed!
Must be an odd s/w glitch. After opening Xiphos again, I was able to select
the KJV.

Not yet tried any searches.

Installed also with PocketSword, but the downloadable search index is not
yet provided by Nic Carter.
Unlike And Bible, PS does not have the feature to generate an index.

David



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[David Haslam]

Having installed it using Xiphos, I can also view the KJV module using
xulsword.

This automatically knows the sword modules path for Windows.

Likewise, I can view the installed KJV module using Bible Desktop (x64).

David





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[Nic Carter]

David shot me a personal email about this & so it should be available now (as of a couple of days ago). Let me know if there are any other search issues with it in PS. :)

Post by David Haslam
Installed by Xiphos and then indexed.
However, when I then selected KJV for the first tab, Xiphos (for Windows)
crashed!
Must be an odd s/w glitch. After opening Xiphos again, I was able to select
the KJV.
Not yet tried any searches.
Installed also with PocketSword, but the downloadable search index is not
yet provided by Nic Carter.
Unlike And Bible, PS does not have the feature to generate an index.
David
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[David Haslam]

Where will DM obtain the data for "add margin notes and cross references " ?

I spoke with 'Studge' at BFBS a few weeks ago.

He does not know of any electronic transcription of the margin notes &
references that were in the KJV from the very beginning.

The nearest in concept is what can be downloaded from openbible.info

http://www.openbible.info/blog/2010/04/bible-cross-references-visualization/

Yet this database is something mostly drawn from PD sources, especially
Treasury of Scripture Knowledge.
It also includes data from the webmaster's Topical Bible, and Twitter Bible
Search.

AFAIK, it excludes data for margin notes.

David





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[DM Smith]

I really have no idea where to get it. It may need to be a manual effort. I'm not really interested in notes and cross references from other resources. The best I've found so far is a 1611 facsimile. That'd be a lot of work.

Same with titles.

In Him,
DM Smith

Post by David Haslam
Where will DM obtain the data for "add margin notes and cross references " ?
I spoke with 'Studge' at BFBS a few weeks ago.
He does not know of any electronic transcription of the margin notes &
references that were in the KJV from the very beginning.
The nearest in concept is what can be downloaded from openbible.info
http://www.openbible.info/blog/2010/04/bible-cross-references-visualization/
Yet this database is something mostly drawn from PD sources, especially
Treasury of Scripture Knowledge.
It also includes data from the webmaster's Topical Bible, and Twitter Bible
Search.
AFAIK, it excludes data for margin notes.
David
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