Discussion:
[sword-devel] Looking for vpl reference
Angel Candelaria
2011-06-10 10:48:31 UTC
Permalink
Hi all.

I'm new in this list, as you can tell. Please excuse me if my
questions shout out "NOOB" all over the place.

I'm working on a Spanish module based on the public domain SpaRV 1909.
Seems that it uses KJV versification, so I'd like to try and format
it as vpl and convert it to a Sword module. But since I'm new at
module making, I'm looking for a vpl source to use as a reference;
just something I can look at and compare my work to.

Can someone point me out to a link where I can find vpl sources I can
use as reference? I found this page
http://crosswire.org/~dmsmith/kjv2006/ . I tried to run one of the vpl
text's found at the bottom of the page through vpl2mod (just as a
practice) but I got some errors (maybe those texts are not made for
that, but I don't know)

Thanks.
Brian J Dumont
2011-06-10 12:13:45 UTC
Permalink
Angel,

The link that you reference is not VPL, it is OSIS. That's why vpl2mod
fails.

Sorry, I don't have any example vpl files.

Brian
Post by Angel Candelaria
Hi all.
I'm new in this list, as you can tell. Please excuse me if my
questions shout out "NOOB" all over the place.
I'm working on a Spanish module based on the public domain SpaRV 1909.
Seems that it uses KJV versification, so I'd like to try and format
it as vpl and convert it to a Sword module. But since I'm new at
module making, I'm looking for a vpl source to use as a reference;
just something I can look at and compare my work to.
Can someone point me out to a link where I can find vpl sources I can
use as reference? I found this page
http://crosswire.org/~dmsmith/kjv2006/ . I tried to run one of the vpl
text's found at the bottom of the page through vpl2mod (just as a
practice) but I got some errors (maybe those texts are not made for
that, but I don't know)
Thanks.
_______________________________________________
sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org
http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
The question is not "Have you accepted Jesus into your heart", but "Has
Jesus accepted you into His heart?"; not "have you given your whole
life for God", but "has God given His whole life for you"
- Pr Bryan Wolfmueller, 2010
Angel Candelaria
2011-06-10 12:42:46 UTC
Permalink
Thanks for the info.

Anyway, seems I almost got it working, following the brief
instructions on the man page of vpl2mod (I'm using Linux, by the way).

I only have one problem: When I open the module on a viewer (I'm
testing it on Xiphos), it lacks spaces between the words. Here's an
example of Genesis 1:1 as it is displayed, so you understand what I'm
talking about:

"ENelprincipio cre? elPoderosolos cielosy latierra."

It should be displayed as "EN el principio cre? el Poderosolos cielos
y la tierra."; some spaces between words are missing. This problem is
present throughout all the bible module. Maybe some encoding problem?

By the way, when I compile the module with vpl2mod, I get a lot of
"problem" errors on the terminal, and occasional "ERROR: short read of
terminating char in readline" errors too.

On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 8:13 AM, Brian J Dumont
Post by Brian J Dumont
Angel,
The link that you reference is not VPL, it is OSIS. ?That's why vpl2mod
fails.
Sorry, I don't have any example vpl files.
Brian
Post by Angel Candelaria
Hi all.
I'm new in this list, as you can tell. ?Please excuse me if my
questions shout out "NOOB" all over the place.
I'm working on a Spanish module based on the public domain SpaRV 1909.
?Seems that it uses KJV versification, so I'd like to try and format
it as vpl and convert it to a Sword module. ?But since I'm new at
module making, I'm looking for a vpl source to use as a reference;
just something I can look at and compare my work to.
Can someone point me out to a link where I can find vpl sources I can
use as reference? I found this page
http://crosswire.org/~dmsmith/kjv2006/ . I tried to run one of the vpl
text's found at the bottom of the page through vpl2mod (just as a
practice) but I got some errors (maybe those texts are not made for
that, but I don't know)
Thanks.
_______________________________________________
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http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
The question is not "Have you accepted Jesus into your heart", but "Has
Jesus accepted you into His heart?"; not "have you given your whole
life for God", but "has God given His whole life for you"
? ? ? ?- Pr Bryan Wolfmueller, 2010
_______________________________________________
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David Haslam
2011-06-10 14:28:24 UTC
Permalink
vpl2mod is not used very often nowadays, so it's conceivable that there may
be some unreported bugs.

The missing spaces issue is certainly strange as well as unepected.

You might have better success by preprocessing the original file to IMP
format, then using imp2vs.

David Haslam
Go Bible project leader



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Mike Hart
2011-06-10 13:01:17 UTC
Permalink
I had that problem (terminating characters) on linux, but not on windows.? When I didn't have a windows box, I found that the vpl2mod.exe command under wine worked better than the vpl2mod script.? In my case the incoming trouble had to do with the file I was working on being saved by open office as a .CSV (tab separation)

--- On Fri, 6/10/11, Angel Candelaria <linuxarecibo at gmail.com> wrote:

From: Angel Candelaria <linuxarecibo at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [sword-devel] Looking for vpl reference
To: "SWORD Developers' Collaboration Forum" <sword-devel at crosswire.org>
Date: Friday, June 10, 2011, 7:42 AM

Thanks for the info.

Anyway, seems I almost got it working, following the brief
instructions on the man page of vpl2mod (I'm using Linux, by the way).

I only have one problem: When I open the module on a viewer (I'm
testing it on Xiphos), it lacks spaces between the words.? Here's an
example of Genesis 1:1 as it is displayed, so you understand what I'm
talking about:

"ENelprincipio cre? elPoderosolos cielosy latierra."

It should be displayed as "EN el principio cre? el Poderosolos cielos
y la tierra."; some spaces between words are missing.? This problem is
present throughout all the bible module. Maybe some encoding problem?

By the way, when I compile the module with vpl2mod, I get a lot of
"problem" errors on the terminal, and occasional "ERROR: short read of
terminating char in readline" errors too.

On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 8:13 AM, Brian J Dumont
Post by Brian J Dumont
Angel,
The link that you reference is not VPL, it is OSIS. ?That's why vpl2mod
fails.
Sorry, I don't have any example vpl files.
Brian
Post by Angel Candelaria
Hi all.
I'm new in this list, as you can tell. ?Please excuse me if my
questions shout out "NOOB" all over the place.
I'm working on a Spanish module based on the public domain SpaRV 1909.
?Seems that it uses KJV versification, so I'd like to try and format
it as vpl and convert it to a Sword module. ?But since I'm new at
module making, I'm looking for a vpl source to use as a reference;
just something I can look at and compare my work to.
Can someone point me out to a link where I can find vpl sources I can
use as reference? I found this page
http://crosswire.org/~dmsmith/kjv2006/ . I tried to run one of the vpl
text's found at the bottom of the page through vpl2mod (just as a
practice) but I got some errors (maybe those texts are not made for
that, but I don't know)
Thanks.
_______________________________________________
sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org
http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
The question is not "Have you accepted Jesus into your heart", but "Has
Jesus accepted you into His heart?"; not "have you given your whole
life for God", but "has God given His whole life for you"
? ? ? ?- Pr Bryan Wolfmueller, 2010
_______________________________________________
sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org
http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
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Angel Candelaria
2011-06-10 13:33:23 UTC
Permalink
I tried to download the vpl2mod.exe (for Windows) but seems that the link is
broken. Is there any other link available? Or maybe someone can provide a
copy.

Thanks.
Post by Mike Hart
I had that problem (terminating characters) on linux, but not on windows.
When I didn't have a windows box, I found that the vpl2mod.exe command under
wine worked better than the vpl2mod script. In my case the incoming trouble
had to do with the file I was working on being saved by open office as a
.CSV (tab separation)
From: Angel Candelaria <linuxarecibo at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [sword-devel] Looking for vpl reference
To: "SWORD Developers' Collaboration Forum" <sword-devel at crosswire.org>
Date: Friday, June 10, 2011, 7:42 AM
Thanks for the info.
Anyway, seems I almost got it working, following the brief
instructions on the man page of vpl2mod (I'm using Linux, by the way).
I only have one problem: When I open the module on a viewer (I'm
testing it on Xiphos), it lacks spaces between the words. Here's an
example of Genesis 1:1 as it is displayed, so you understand what I'm
"ENelprincipio cre? elPoderosolos cielosy latierra."
It should be displayed as "EN el principio cre? el Poderosolos cielos
y la tierra."; some spaces between words are missing. This problem is
present throughout all the bible module. Maybe some encoding problem?
By the way, when I compile the module with vpl2mod, I get a lot of
"problem" errors on the terminal, and occasional "ERROR: short read of
terminating char in readline" errors too.
On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 8:13 AM, Brian J Dumont
<brian.j.dumont at gmail.com <http://mc/compose?to=brian.j.dumont at gmail.com>>
Post by Brian J Dumont
Angel,
The link that you reference is not VPL, it is OSIS. That's why vpl2mod
fails.
Sorry, I don't have any example vpl files.
Brian
Post by Angel Candelaria
Hi all.
I'm new in this list, as you can tell. Please excuse me if my
questions shout out "NOOB" all over the place.
I'm working on a Spanish module based on the public domain SpaRV 1909.
Seems that it uses KJV versification, so I'd like to try and format
it as vpl and convert it to a Sword module. But since I'm new at
module making, I'm looking for a vpl source to use as a reference;
just something I can look at and compare my work to.
Can someone point me out to a link where I can find vpl sources I can
use as reference? I found this page
http://crosswire.org/~dmsmith/kjv2006/ . I tried to run one of the vpl
text's found at the bottom of the page through vpl2mod (just as a
practice) but I got some errors (maybe those texts are not made for
that, but I don't know)
Thanks.
_______________________________________________
sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org<http://mc/compose?to=sword-devel at crosswire.org>
http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
The question is not "Have you accepted Jesus into your heart", but "Has
Jesus accepted you into His heart?"; not "have you given your whole
life for God", but "has God given His whole life for you"
- Pr Bryan Wolfmueller, 2010
_______________________________________________
sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org<http://mc/compose?to=sword-devel at crosswire.org>
http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
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Angel Candelaria
2011-06-10 13:58:12 UTC
Permalink
Ok, found a copy of sword utilities at the ftp server.

How do I use it in Windows (i'm sorry, I'm a Linux user - there's been a
while...)?

Or how do I run it on Wine?
Post by Angel Candelaria
I tried to download the vpl2mod.exe (for Windows) but seems that the link
is broken. Is there any other link available? Or maybe someone can provide
a copy.
Thanks.
Post by Mike Hart
I had that problem (terminating characters) on linux, but not on windows.
When I didn't have a windows box, I found that the vpl2mod.exe command under
wine worked better than the vpl2mod script. In my case the incoming trouble
had to do with the file I was working on being saved by open office as a
.CSV (tab separation)
From: Angel Candelaria <linuxarecibo at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [sword-devel] Looking for vpl reference
To: "SWORD Developers' Collaboration Forum" <sword-devel at crosswire.org>
Date: Friday, June 10, 2011, 7:42 AM
Thanks for the info.
Anyway, seems I almost got it working, following the brief
instructions on the man page of vpl2mod (I'm using Linux, by the way).
I only have one problem: When I open the module on a viewer (I'm
testing it on Xiphos), it lacks spaces between the words. Here's an
example of Genesis 1:1 as it is displayed, so you understand what I'm
"ENelprincipio cre? elPoderosolos cielosy latierra."
It should be displayed as "EN el principio cre? el Poderosolos cielos
y la tierra."; some spaces between words are missing. This problem is
present throughout all the bible module. Maybe some encoding problem?
By the way, when I compile the module with vpl2mod, I get a lot of
"problem" errors on the terminal, and occasional "ERROR: short read of
terminating char in readline" errors too.
On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 8:13 AM, Brian J Dumont
<brian.j.dumont at gmail.com <http://mc/compose?to=brian.j.dumont at gmail.com>>
Post by Brian J Dumont
Angel,
The link that you reference is not VPL, it is OSIS. That's why vpl2mod
fails.
Sorry, I don't have any example vpl files.
Brian
Post by Angel Candelaria
Hi all.
I'm new in this list, as you can tell. Please excuse me if my
questions shout out "NOOB" all over the place.
I'm working on a Spanish module based on the public domain SpaRV 1909.
Seems that it uses KJV versification, so I'd like to try and format
it as vpl and convert it to a Sword module. But since I'm new at
module making, I'm looking for a vpl source to use as a reference;
just something I can look at and compare my work to.
Can someone point me out to a link where I can find vpl sources I can
use as reference? I found this page
http://crosswire.org/~dmsmith/kjv2006/ . I tried to run one of the vpl
text's found at the bottom of the page through vpl2mod (just as a
practice) but I got some errors (maybe those texts are not made for
that, but I don't know)
Thanks.
_______________________________________________
sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org<http://mc/compose?to=sword-devel at crosswire.org>
http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
The question is not "Have you accepted Jesus into your heart", but "Has
Jesus accepted you into His heart?"; not "have you given your whole
life for God", but "has God given His whole life for you"
- Pr Bryan Wolfmueller, 2010
_______________________________________________
sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org<http://mc/compose?to=sword-devel at crosswire.org>
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David Haslam
2011-06-10 14:38:58 UTC
Permalink
You say "based on the SpaRV 1909".

So how does what you're working on differ from the existing CrossWire module
called SpaRV ?
This is based on the 1909 PD edition.

NB. Adding morphology (etc) to PD translations is sometimes seen as a
creative act, and thus one which may have already resulted in a copyrighted
work (e.g. - if it's already been done by a third party). So please check
the wider context.

David

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Angel Candelaria
2011-06-10 18:16:29 UTC
Permalink
Thanks David for your insights.

The module I'm working on is called "Reina Valera Restaurada 2011"
which you can find at http://www.asambleadeyahweh.com . This version
was made based on RVR1909 by Jos? Alvarez, the leader of Asamblea de
Yahweh in Puerto Rico (they are a "descendant" of the Yahwe's Assembly
in the Messiah movement of USA). I'm his assistant, and he gave me
permission to work on this module. In fact, the bible is available
freely at the website I just mentioned.

About the format, what will it require to change my vpl text to an imp
format? I am so close at getting this in order that trying another
format seems like "starting over". But if there's no other way, I may
have to do it.

Do I have to change it manually, or is there an utility that can help
in changing the text form vpl to imp?
Post by David Haslam
You say "based on the SpaRV 1909".
So how does what you're working on differ from the existing CrossWire module
called SpaRV ??
This is based on the 1909 PD edition.
NB. Adding morphology (etc) to PD translations is sometimes seen as a
creative act, and thus one which may have already resulted in a copyrighted
work (e.g. - if it's already been done by a third party). So please check
the wider context.
David
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Greg Hellings
2011-06-10 18:33:45 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 1:16 PM, Angel Candelaria
Post by Angel Candelaria
Thanks David for your insights.
The module I'm working on is called "Reina Valera Restaurada 2011"
which you can find at http://www.asambleadeyahweh.com . This version
was made based on RVR1909 by Jos? Alvarez, the leader of Asamblea de
Yahweh in Puerto Rico (they are a "descendant" of the Yahwe's Assembly
in the Messiah movement of USA). ?I'm his assistant, and he gave me
permission to work on this module. ?In fact, the bible is available
freely at the website I just mentioned.
About the format, what will it require to change my vpl text to an imp
format? I am so close at getting this in order that trying another
format seems like "starting over". ?But if there's no other way, I may
have to do it.
In the imp format an entry looks like this:
$$$Matthew 1:1
The text of
Matthew 1:1 spread out here
in the following lines
$$$Matthew 1:2
The text of Matthew 1:2 here in
the next lines

So you'd need to insert $$$Reference lines between each line of the
text. It's still a very simple markup, not much more than vpl, but
able to handle alternate versifications.

--Greg
Angel Candelaria
2011-06-10 18:44:27 UTC
Permalink
In the vpl text I have, I started like this:

LAS SAGRADAS ESCRITURAS - REINA VALERA RESTAURADA VERSI?N 2011

G?NESIS
Cap?tulo 1
En el principio cre? el Poderoso los cielos y la tierra...

according to the format that vpl2mod expects. Now, in imp format,
should I drop the first lines that describe the bible name, book name
and chapter? Should I just start with:

$$$Genesis 1:1
En el principio cre? el Poderoso los cielos y la tierra...

al the first line of the document and continue in a similar way?
Post by Greg Hellings
On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 1:16 PM, Angel Candelaria
Post by Angel Candelaria
Thanks David for your insights.
The module I'm working on is called "Reina Valera Restaurada 2011"
which you can find at http://www.asambleadeyahweh.com . This version
was made based on RVR1909 by Jos? Alvarez, the leader of Asamblea de
Yahweh in Puerto Rico (they are a "descendant" of the Yahwe's Assembly
in the Messiah movement of USA). ?I'm his assistant, and he gave me
permission to work on this module. ?In fact, the bible is available
freely at the website I just mentioned.
About the format, what will it require to change my vpl text to an imp
format? I am so close at getting this in order that trying another
format seems like "starting over". ?But if there's no other way, I may
have to do it.
$$$Matthew 1:1
The text of
Matthew 1:1 spread out here
in the following lines
$$$Matthew 1:2
The text of Matthew 1:2 here in
the next lines
So you'd need to insert $$$Reference lines between each line of the
text. It's still a very simple markup, not much more than vpl, but
able to handle alternate versifications.
--Greg
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David Haslam
2011-06-11 17:07:23 UTC
Permalink
Everyone,

I just observed that http://www.asambleadeyahweh.com/ is non-Trinitarian.

I am therefore unwilling to provide further assistance on this translation.

David

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Mike Hart
2011-06-10 23:20:32 UTC
Permalink
to use it, you unzip the file to a directory.

some versions of windows can handle zip files natively.? if you see it as a folder and can browse the files, then just drag the files to another directory.? You need to have all the files in the same directory.

If you can't see the files in the zipped folder, you need to get a program that can deal with zip files.? I recommend 7zip.? ( http://www.7-zip.org/download.html )


How to use it in WINE... that really depends on what flavor of linux you are using, and I'm currently on an outdated version of PCLinuxOS, so my advice there is not going to be good for you.
start ... run ... cmd (enter) or ALT-F2 cmd (enter)
This should open a windows command shell

$ cd (C:your\bible\work\folder\) (enter)
$ vpl2mod (enter)

This should give you a list of options for encoding your file

for me the command I use is

$ vpl2mod.exe BLE-vpl-ready.txt .? 1 0
where ble-vpl-ready.txt is the file (that i've copied to the same folder as the exe file) i'm converting.
the next dot tells the program to drop the converted files into the same directory.
the 1 says that each row begins with a verse reference
the 0 says i'm converting the whole bible (old testament AND new testament)

The modules appear as OT and NT and usually there are 2 other files.?? You will also need a module.conf file, but your other emails say you understand that part of the process ok.


HOWEVER:? your latest post says you are creating an IMP type file, not a VPL type file.? to create a sword module from IMP type files do a similar process

$ IMP2MOD.exe (enter) --> gives you the options you need to include ....

IMPort files have more options because the IMP format can be used for any type of sword module, where the VPL (verse per line) assume you are importing text or verse for verse commentaries.? I've created modules from import files, but not ones that work with BibleTime.?

When you get into IMPort files, the Sword team has made statements about not supporting this type of format for module creation any longer, and some of the front end programs may no longer be able to read the output file.? This is because the Import format includes much more support for formatting (centers on the screen, etc.) the VPL type files are also no longer officially supported, but if you stick with plain text VPL files, there is very little chance your module will do something that the bible reader programs no longer support.

Hope this is helpful.

If you want or need help converting your import file into a VPL file, I can assist.? I use a variety of programs to accomplish the task (mostly microsoft excel or open office calc.) so typing out the process would be tricky.




--- On Fri, 6/10/11, Angel Candelaria <linuxarecibo at gmail.com> wrote:

From: Angel Candelaria <linuxarecibo at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [sword-devel] Looking for vpl reference
To: "SWORD Developers' Collaboration Forum" <sword-devel at crosswire.org>
Date: Friday, June 10, 2011, 8:58 AM

Ok, found a copy of sword utilities at the ftp server.

How do I use it in Windows (i'm sorry, I'm a Linux user - there's been a while...)?

Or how do I run it on Wine?


On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 9:33 AM, Angel Candelaria <linuxarecibo at gmail.com> wrote:

I tried to download the vpl2mod.exe (for Windows) but seems that the link is broken.? Is there any other link available? Or maybe someone can provide a copy.

Thanks.


On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 9:01 AM, Mike Hart <just_mike_y at yahoo.com> wrote:



I had that problem (terminating characters) on linux, but not on windows.? When I didn't have a windows box, I found that the vpl2mod.exe command under wine worked better than the vpl2mod script.? In my case the incoming trouble had to do with the file I was working on being saved by open office as a .CSV (tab separation)



--- On Fri, 6/10/11, Angel Candelaria <linuxarecibo at gmail.com> wrote:



From: Angel Candelaria <linuxarecibo at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [sword-devel] Looking for vpl reference
To: "SWORD Developers' Collaboration Forum" <sword-devel at crosswire.org>


Date: Friday, June 10, 2011, 7:42 AM

Thanks for the info.

Anyway, seems I almost got it working, following
the brief
instructions on the man page of vpl2mod (I'm using Linux, by the way).

I only have one problem: When I open the module on a viewer (I'm
testing it on Xiphos), it lacks spaces between the words.? Here's an


example of Genesis 1:1 as it is displayed, so you understand what I'm
talking about:

"ENelprincipio cre? elPoderosolos cielosy latierra."

It should be displayed as "EN el principio cre? el Poderosolos cielos


y la tierra."; some spaces between words are missing.? This problem is
present throughout all the bible module. Maybe some encoding problem?

By the way, when I compile the module with vpl2mod, I get a lot of


"problem" errors on the terminal, and occasional "ERROR: short read of
terminating char in readline" errors too.

On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 8:13 AM, Brian J Dumont
Angel,
The link that you reference is not VPL, it is OSIS. ?That's why vpl2mod
fails.
Sorry, I don't have any example vpl files.
Brian
Post by Angel Candelaria
Hi all.
I'm new in this list, as you can tell. ?Please excuse me if my
questions shout out "NOOB" all over the place.
I'm working on a Spanish module based on the public domain SpaRV 1909.
?Seems that it uses KJV versification, so I'd like to try and format
it as vpl and convert it to a Sword module. ?But since I'm new at
module making, I'm looking for a vpl source to use as a reference;
just something I can look at and compare my work
to.
Post by Angel Candelaria
Can someone point me out to a link where I can find vpl sources I can
use as reference? I found this page
http://crosswire.org/~dmsmith/kjv2006/ . I tried to run one of the vpl
text's found at the bottom of the page through vpl2mod (just as a
practice) but I got some errors (maybe those texts are not made for
that, but I don't know)
Thanks.
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Jonathan Morgan
2011-06-11 01:38:58 UTC
Permalink
Hi Mike / Angel,
HOWEVER: your latest post says you are creating an IMP type file, not a
VPL type file. to create a sword module from IMP type files do a similar
process
$ IMP2MOD.exe (enter) --> gives you the options you need to include ....
IMPort files have more options because the IMP format can be used for any
type of sword module, where the VPL (verse per line) assume you are
importing text or verse for verse commentaries. I've created modules from
import files, but not ones that work with BibleTime.
When you get into IMPort files, the Sword team has made statements about
not supporting this type of format for module creation any longer, and some
of the front end programs may no longer be able to read the output file.
This is because the Import format includes much more support for formatting
(centers on the screen, etc.) the VPL type files are also no longer
officially supported, but if you stick with plain text VPL files, there is
very little chance your module will do something that the bible reader
programs no longer support.
I'm not sure that this is correct. While I have heard things about IMP as
an import mechanism not going to be supported well in future, that concern
is quite different from whether the created modules actually work well in
programs. If you use GBF then it is quite possible that it will not work
well in all programs, but if you use OSIS or ThML then I would expect them
to be well supported for the foreseeable future.

Certainly if you want to submit modules to CrossWire and are creating a
Bible complete OSIS documents are preferred (I think because it allows it to
be run through a validator, whereas OSIS/ThML in an IMP file is not
necessarily valid XML). However, if you are wanting to use and distribute
modules yourself you can pretty much use anything that works.

Modules from import files should work just as well as modules from
osis2mod. Could you give more details about any ones that didn't work with
BibleTime?

Jon
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Angel Candelaria
2011-06-11 02:32:24 UTC
Permalink
Hi Jon.

Well, the problem I was having was with the vpl format; for some reason, the
conversion process removed a lot of spaces in the text and it didn't show
correctly on the bible viewers (at least on BibleTime and Xiphos).

I'm currently converting the text to imp format. I ran some tests, although
it is not finished, but at least the problem with the spaces is gone now.
Seems that I'll stick to the imp version if I can solve the problem of the
spaces with the vpl format.

Anyway, it would be nice to submit this module to Crosswire (and I don't
think the bible's author has a problem with that), but converting it to OSIS
will certainly take some time. So I believe I'll stick to either imp or vpl
for the moment - the main purpose of making this a Sword module is to make
it available to others through the author's website.
Post by Jonathan Morgan
Hi Mike / Angel,
HOWEVER: your latest post says you are creating an IMP type file, not a
VPL type file. to create a sword module from IMP type files do a similar
process
$ IMP2MOD.exe (enter) --> gives you the options you need to include ....
IMPort files have more options because the IMP format can be used for any
type of sword module, where the VPL (verse per line) assume you are
importing text or verse for verse commentaries. I've created modules from
import files, but not ones that work with BibleTime.
When you get into IMPort files, the Sword team has made statements about
not supporting this type of format for module creation any longer, and some
of the front end programs may no longer be able to read the output file.
This is because the Import format includes much more support for formatting
(centers on the screen, etc.) the VPL type files are also no longer
officially supported, but if you stick with plain text VPL files, there is
very little chance your module will do something that the bible reader
programs no longer support.
I'm not sure that this is correct. While I have heard things about IMP as
an import mechanism not going to be supported well in future, that concern
is quite different from whether the created modules actually work well in
programs. If you use GBF then it is quite possible that it will not work
well in all programs, but if you use OSIS or ThML then I would expect them
to be well supported for the foreseeable future.
Certainly if you want to submit modules to CrossWire and are creating a
Bible complete OSIS documents are preferred (I think because it allows it to
be run through a validator, whereas OSIS/ThML in an IMP file is not
necessarily valid XML). However, if you are wanting to use and distribute
modules yourself you can pretty much use anything that works.
Modules from import files should work just as well as modules from
osis2mod. Could you give more details about any ones that didn't work with
BibleTime?
Jon
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Mike Hart
2011-06-11 02:48:17 UTC
Permalink
FYI:

I created the RVR2011 module via windows from Angel's file, in the way I do it (prepend the verse reference to each line.)? I see no missing space characters
in BibleTime with the completed module.? It looks complete with the
spaces.? I don't read Spanish, but I believe the encoding is the same without any changes.
That is, the special characters in Gen 1-5 look similar to me in the
book reader compared to what I see in jEdit with UTF8 encoding (the coding the file came to me.)

The module he sent me
(verse numbers only leading each row) should compile without issue on windows. I just have some validation
built into my process that I wanted to do.

This reproduces what I discovered in 2008: The linux vpl2mod script only handles English alphanumeric characters well.. It chokes on quotation marks for me.? The windows version is far more robust (no issues with encoding or special characters that I know of.)

Also, it is important to note that the windows version is now the archaic windows version. When planning to use the windows version of VPL2MOD, note it needs to run in win 3.11 through windows 98 or a Windows 95 or 98 compatibility mode in XP. As far as I know, it won't run at all on windows Vista (or Windows 7?)

If I'm feeling energetic tomorrow, I might try to note this in the wiki somewhere.
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Peter von Kaehne
2011-06-11 07:48:49 UTC
Permalink
Jonathan has given a clear explanation why the imp format is more useful.

Bending the utilities by using old windows utilities on wine on Linux seems to me bizarre and not something I think we should either promote or document on the wiki as a valid way of working.

If there is an issue with vpl2mod (which well may be, given that no one of the CrossWire core module makers will use it with any regularity) then the appropriate way forward is

a) to document it in the bugs database
b) provide a clean sample text which causes the described behaviour
c) use working alternatives (imp) instead of creating some crutches

Wrt cleaning up of odd texts - It is a good idea to look first into a text with issues and check what weird characters are there in use (prior to claiming that the Sword utilities do not work). I have not infrequently found all kinds of control characters lying around in texts which gave me difficulties. Some editors will show them, others not.

uni2ascii is a good utility to transform _all_ characters into their hexadecimal representation which then can get easily analysed for presence of weirdness.

Peter


-------- Original-Nachricht --------
Datum: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 19:48:17 -0700 (PDT)
Von: Mike Hart <just_mike_y at yahoo.com>
An: SWORD Developers\' Collaboration Forum <sword-devel at crosswire.org>
Betreff: Re: [sword-devel] Looking for vpl reference
I created the RVR2011 module via windows from Angel's file, in the way I
do it (prepend the verse reference to each line.)? I see no missing space
characters
in BibleTime with the completed module.? It looks complete with the
spaces.? I don't read Spanish, but I believe the encoding is the same without any changes.
That is, the special characters in Gen 1-5 look similar to me in the
book reader compared to what I see in jEdit with UTF8 encoding (the coding
the file came to me.)
The module he sent me
(verse numbers only leading each row) should compile without issue on
windows. I just have some validation
built into my process that I wanted to do.
This reproduces what I discovered in 2008: The linux vpl2mod script only
handles English alphanumeric characters well.. It chokes on quotation marks
for me.? The windows version is far more robust (no issues with encoding
or special characters that I know of.)
Also, it is important to note that the windows version is now the archaic
windows version. When planning to use the windows version of VPL2MOD, note
it needs to run in win 3.11 through windows 98 or a Windows 95 or 98
compatibility mode in XP. As far as I know, it won't run at all on windows Vista
(or Windows 7?)
If I'm feeling energetic tomorrow, I might try to note this in the wiki somewhere.
--
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Jetzt informieren: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/freephone
Peter von Kaehne
2011-06-11 08:08:16 UTC
Permalink
uni2ascii is part of the ubuntu repos. It's sister utility ascii2uni comes along in the same package. On the wiki page linked to below is a shell script using it which will give you a character count of all characters used in a text. This can be useful to figure out weirdness.

uconv is another useful utility. It is part of the ICU development package on ubuntu (libicu-dev). It can switch texts from all kinds of encodings into Unicode.

Something worthwhile having, too, is flip. flip changes line end control characters from Windows to Unix and vice verse. Again, it is in the Ubuntu repos.

A lot of info is here:

http://www.crosswire.org/wiki/DevTools:Modules#Prepare_the_Source_Text_for_Import


Peter
Von: "Peter von Kaehne" <refdoc at gmx.net>
An: SWORD Developers\' Collaboration Forum <sword-devel at crosswire.org>
Betreff: Re: [sword-devel] Looking for vpl reference
Jonathan has given a clear explanation why the imp format is more useful.
Bending the utilities by using old windows utilities on wine on Linux
seems to me bizarre and not something I think we should either promote or
document on the wiki as a valid way of working.
If there is an issue with vpl2mod (which well may be, given that no one of
the CrossWire core module makers will use it with any regularity) then the
appropriate way forward is
a) to document it in the bugs database
b) provide a clean sample text which causes the described behaviour
c) use working alternatives (imp) instead of creating some crutches
Wrt cleaning up of odd texts - It is a good idea to look first into a text
with issues and check what weird characters are there in use (prior to
claiming that the Sword utilities do not work). I have not infrequently found
all kinds of control characters lying around in texts which gave me
difficulties. Some editors will show them, others not.
uni2ascii is a good utility to transform _all_ characters into their
hexadecimal representation which then can get easily analysed for presence of
weirdness.
Peter
-------- Original-Nachricht --------
Datum: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 19:48:17 -0700 (PDT)
Von: Mike Hart <just_mike_y at yahoo.com>
An: SWORD Developers\' Collaboration Forum <sword-devel at crosswire.org>
Betreff: Re: [sword-devel] Looking for vpl reference
I created the RVR2011 module via windows from Angel's file, in the way I
do it (prepend the verse reference to each line.)? I see no missing
space
characters
in BibleTime with the completed module.? It looks complete with the
spaces.? I don't read Spanish, but I believe the encoding is the same
without any changes.
That is, the special characters in Gen 1-5 look similar to me in the
book reader compared to what I see in jEdit with UTF8 encoding (the
coding
the file came to me.)
The module he sent me
(verse numbers only leading each row) should compile without issue on
windows. I just have some validation
built into my process that I wanted to do.
This reproduces what I discovered in 2008: The linux vpl2mod script only
handles English alphanumeric characters well.. It chokes on quotation
marks
for me.? The windows version is far more robust (no issues with
encoding
or special characters that I know of.)
Also, it is important to note that the windows version is now the
archaic
windows version. When planning to use the windows version of VPL2MOD,
note
it needs to run in win 3.11 through windows 98 or a Windows 95 or 98
compatibility mode in XP. As far as I know, it won't run at all on
windows Vista
(or Windows 7?)
If I'm feeling energetic tomorrow, I might try to note this in the wiki somewhere.
--
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Jetzt informieren: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/freephone
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Angel Candelaria
2011-06-11 09:26:43 UTC
Permalink
Again, thanks for the info.

I'd like to note that the vpl ready file that Mike sent me (with the
verse references - my original text did not have any) compiles
correctly with vpl2mod on Linux too. Maybe the problem was the way
that my original text was enconded or something. Mike, did you find
something wrong in the enconding of the text?
Post by Peter von Kaehne
uni2ascii is part of the ubuntu repos. It's sister utility ascii2uni comes along in the same package. On the wiki page linked to below is a shell script using it which will give you a character count of all characters used in a text. This can be useful to figure out weirdness.
uconv is another useful utility. It is part of the ICU development package on ubuntu (libicu-dev). It can switch texts from all kinds of encodings into Unicode.
Something worthwhile having, too, is flip. flip changes line end control characters from Windows to Unix and vice verse. ?Again, it is in the Ubuntu repos.
http://www.crosswire.org/wiki/DevTools:Modules#Prepare_the_Source_Text_for_Import
Peter
Von: "Peter von Kaehne" <refdoc at gmx.net>
An: SWORD Developers\' Collaboration Forum <sword-devel at crosswire.org>
Betreff: Re: [sword-devel] Looking for vpl reference
Jonathan has given a clear explanation why the imp format is more useful.
Bending the utilities by using old windows utilities on wine on Linux
seems to me bizarre and not something I think we should either promote or
document on the wiki as a valid way of working.
If there is an issue with vpl2mod (which well may be, given that no one of
the CrossWire core module makers will use it with any regularity) then the
appropriate way forward is
a) to document it in the bugs database
b) provide a clean sample text which causes the described behaviour
c) use working alternatives (imp) instead of creating some crutches
Wrt cleaning up of odd texts - It is a good idea to look first into a text
with issues and check what weird characters are there in use (prior to
claiming that the Sword utilities do not work). I have not infrequently found
all kinds of control characters lying around in texts which gave me
difficulties. Some editors will show them, others not.
uni2ascii is a good utility to transform _all_ characters into their
hexadecimal representation which then can get easily analysed for presence of
weirdness.
Peter
-------- Original-Nachricht --------
Datum: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 19:48:17 -0700 (PDT)
Von: Mike Hart <just_mike_y at yahoo.com>
An: SWORD Developers\' Collaboration Forum <sword-devel at crosswire.org>
Betreff: Re: [sword-devel] Looking for vpl reference
I created the RVR2011 module via windows from Angel's file, in the way I
do it (prepend the verse reference to each line.)? I see no missing
space
characters
?in BibleTime with the completed module.? It looks complete with the
spaces.? I don't read Spanish, but I believe the encoding is the same
without any changes.
That is, the special characters in Gen 1-5 look similar to me in the
book reader compared to what I see in jEdit with UTF8 encoding (the
coding
the file came to me.)
The module he sent me
(verse numbers only leading each row) should compile without issue on
windows. I just have some validation
built into my process that I wanted to do.
This reproduces what I discovered in 2008: The linux vpl2mod script only
handles English alphanumeric characters well.. It chokes on quotation
marks
for me.? The windows version is far more robust (no issues with
encoding
or special characters that I know of.)
Also, it is important to note that the windows version is now the
archaic
windows version. When planning to use the windows version of VPL2MOD,
note
it needs to run in win 3.11 through windows 98 or a Windows 95 or 98
compatibility mode in XP. As far as I know, it won't run at all on
windows Vista
(or Windows 7?)
If I'm feeling energetic tomorrow, I might try to note this in the wiki somewhere.
--
NEU: FreePhone - kostenlos mobil telefonieren!
Jetzt informieren: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/freephone
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David Haslam
2011-06-11 12:53:27 UTC
Permalink
FWIW. I made a bespoke TextPipe filter for converting (Biblical text) from
VPL to IMP.

Some of my TextPipe filters are listed in
http://crosswire.org/wiki/Projects:Go_Bible#TextPipe_filters

TextPipe is for Windows only, and is not a free program.
See http://www.datamystic.com/textpipe.html

Many tasks that one can do easily with TextPipe can usually be readily
tackled by Linux users with grep.

David

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David Haslam
2011-06-11 13:18:34 UTC
Permalink
I have run my TextPipe filters to generate the IMP file. Booknames are as
generally used by CrossWire.
The start of the file looks like this.
$$$[ Module Heading ]

$$$[ Testament 1 Heading ]

$$$Genesis 0:0
G?NESIS
$$$Genesis 1:0
Cap?tulo 1
$$$Genesis 1:1
EN el principio cre? el Poderoso los cielos y la tierra.
$$$Genesis 1:2
Y la tierra estaba desordenada y vac?a, y las tinieblas estaban sobre la haz
del abismo, y el esp?ritu del Poderoso se mov?a sobre la faz de las aguas.
$$$Genesis 1:3
Y dijo el Poderoso: Haya luz: y hubo luz.

I have informed Angel via a private email, so when he responds, I can email
him the full IMP file.

David

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Greg Hellings
2011-06-11 15:13:55 UTC
Permalink
I would also like to say that if the main issue appears to revolve
around character encodings and the Windows utils work while a
hand-build Linux version fumbles on the encoding, it is very possible
that the Linux built versions are lacking ICU, which I believe is used
by SWORD to help with encoding and decoding different text versions.
Make sure you have the ICU developer packages installed when building
SWORD, and then try it again to see if that might be the problem.

--Greg
Post by Peter von Kaehne
Jonathan has given a clear explanation why the imp format is more useful.
Bending the utilities by using old windows utilities on wine on Linux seems to me bizarre and not something I think we should either promote or document on the wiki as a valid way of working.
If there is an issue with vpl2mod (which well may be, given that no one of the CrossWire core module makers will use it with any regularity) then the appropriate way forward is
a) to document it in the bugs database
b) provide a clean sample text which causes the described behaviour
c) use working alternatives (imp) instead of creating some crutches
Wrt cleaning up of odd texts - It is a good idea to look first into a text with issues and check what weird characters are there in use (prior to claiming that the Sword utilities do not work). I have not infrequently found all kinds of control characters lying around in texts which gave me difficulties. Some editors will show them, others not.
uni2ascii is a good utility to transform _all_ characters into their hexadecimal representation which then can get easily analysed for presence of weirdness.
Peter
-------- Original-Nachricht --------
Datum: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 19:48:17 -0700 (PDT)
Von: Mike Hart <just_mike_y at yahoo.com>
An: SWORD Developers\' Collaboration Forum <sword-devel at crosswire.org>
Betreff: Re: [sword-devel] Looking for vpl reference
I created the RVR2011 module via windows from Angel's file, in the way I
do it (prepend the verse reference to each line.)? I see no missing space
characters
?in BibleTime with the completed module.? It looks complete with the
spaces.? I don't read Spanish, but I believe the encoding is the same
without any changes.
That is, the special characters in Gen 1-5 look similar to me in the
book reader compared to what I see in jEdit with UTF8 encoding (the coding
the file came to me.)
The module he sent me
(verse numbers only leading each row) should compile without issue on
windows. I just have some validation
built into my process that I wanted to do.
This reproduces what I discovered in 2008: The linux vpl2mod script only
handles English alphanumeric characters well.. It chokes on quotation marks
for me.? The windows version is far more robust (no issues with encoding
or special characters that I know of.)
Also, it is important to note that the windows version is now the archaic
windows version. When planning to use the windows version of VPL2MOD, note
it needs to run in win 3.11 through windows 98 or a Windows 95 or 98
compatibility mode in XP. As far as I know, it won't run at all on windows Vista
(or Windows 7?)
If I'm feeling energetic tomorrow, I might try to note this in the wiki somewhere.
--
NEU: FreePhone - kostenlos mobil telefonieren!
Jetzt informieren: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/freephone
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Mike Hart
2011-06-11 20:20:26 UTC
Permalink
I think it important to state here that this is not just about a statement of faith on the website.

The problem is that the RVR2011 appears to be intentionally mistranslated to support the theology described there. More specifically, John 1:1 reads

"EN el principio era el Verbo, y el Verbo era con el Todopoderoso, y el Verbo era poderoso."

I don't read Spanish well, but immediately the lower case 'p' on the last word alarmed me. I asked David about it. He confirmed that not only is this verse declaring "the Word" isn't at the same level as God, but the word poderoso translates 'powerful' (like a steam train powerful) and not divine at all.

If you look at any existing Greek manuscript of this verse, the source for the word Todopoderoso (The Almighty ?) and poderoso (powerful) are both translations of the same greek word 'Theos'. I know of no justification that could make the original writer unable to come up with different words for his introduction if he truly meant that much difference. Theos = Theos = God = God. In Greek, it is clear he's saying they are the same thing. For 1900 years just about everyone who looks at this verse makes the same conclusion. In no place have I ever seen theos translated powerful (raging bull strong.)

Based on the text seeming to follow the Assembly de Yahweh's theology and not following any known Greek manuscript, I'm going to have to suggest it is flawed enough that it needs significant revision before it could be hosted by Crosswire, if ever. Hopefully the translator will now be able to use the Crosswire tools to see the flaws in their text and correct them.
Greg Hellings
2011-06-11 20:34:05 UTC
Permalink
Based on the text seeming to follow the Assembly de Yahweh's theology and not following any known Greek manuscript, I'm going to have to suggest it is flawed enough that it needs significant revision before it could be hosted by Crosswire...
http://crosswire.org/sword/modules/ModDisp.jsp?modType=Cults
if ever. ? Hopefully the translator will now be able to use the Crosswire tools to see the flaws in their text and correct
them.
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Mike Hart
2011-06-11 21:04:47 UTC
Permalink
The title word "Cult" on that section seems to prevent any living translator or group from voluntarily placing their version in that list.

Perhaps if the section were renamed something less offensive it might contain more works. Sectarian? or Unorthodox? Nobody wants to consider their own group a cult. (or if they do... er.. um..)

The main point was to redirect David's recension from the ideals stated on the website to the work itself. Our off-group discussion included wondering if we were reading the text properly. The statement of faith on the website was the proof, but not the problem.
Peter von Kaehne
2011-06-11 21:15:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Hart
The title word "Cult" on that section seems to prevent any living translator or group from voluntarily placing their version in that list.
I have no problem with that.

Peter
Karl Kleinpaste
2011-06-11 21:17:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Hart
Perhaps if the section were renamed something less offensive it might
contain more works. Sectarian? or Unorthodox?
The conf directive is in fact...

Category=Cults / Unorthodox / Questionable Material

...as can be seen by actually looking at the *.conf for JST and Diaglott.

Any group so unwilling to be held up to the light that they won't even
allow that such "translations" are questionable, as are found with such
abuse of John 1:1, don't deserve the respect of support in our software.
Continue reading on narkive:
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